In full from I-Copywriting Digest 10 November 2003 cos their archives stink..
TOPIC: Copywriting and SEO
FROM: Detlev Johnson - detlev,searchenginewriting.com
Hello Nick,
I was excited to read your take on SEO and writing.
It's as if search engines seem to lead writers
astray from basic writing principles and the art form
itself.
I can say that SEO writing is a subset of online
writing, not so much a subset of SEO. The thing that
complicates matters is that SEO writing is a product
of SEO. Whereas I think of SEO as a good online
writer's skill of adaptation to the world of Web
search engines. That means I would look for a bona
fide writer to take such an important role in my SEO
company.
Your concerns about SEO writing being done by
lackluster writers that purport to be professional
writers is true and gives our industry an ugly face.
Most of the SEO writing I've come across is
miserable. We absolutely need more bona fide writers
to work in our field (providing they have
interest.)
I encourage some here to consider freelancing at
least some SEO work to develop a good feel for a
style that works in search engines. I have the
pleasure to know good writers who are worth their
weight in gold, because there are not a lot of them.
There are even fewer writers skilled in SEO writing.
*cheers*
-detlev
Detlev Johnson
Comment?
mailto:copywriting@marketingwonk.com?subject=Copywriting_and_SEO
............................................................
TOPIC: Copywriting and SEO
FROM: Andy Gartner - andy,onalaskaweb.com
Hello all,
This is actually in response to two topics which in
my opinion are very much the same, they are
Copywriting and SEO and Should writers learn HTML.
First let me disclose that I am not a writer, I own a
small web design business and employ 4 people.
Currently 2 designers, 1 programmer and 1 marketing
director. I belong to a local group that is called
Designers Do Lunch, it is a very informal group of
creatives - graphic designers, writers, proofreaders,
publishers, printers, etc. This topic was actually
discussed at one meeting. If a writer is going to
write copy for web sites, do they need to learn HTML.
My opinion and the opinion of most of the designers
in the discussion was absolutely NO. If writers are
going to write copy for web sites they need to learn
SEO. You see the problem with Mike's comments
about a non-writer being able to optimize a site for
high rankings is only one sided. It doesn't do
any good to write just for search engines, that is
only half the audience. He is missing the other half
of the audience and that would be people. This is
were a skilled writer comes in. It doesn't work
to have high traffic to a site but have lower sales
because the copy is bad. Don't bother learning
HTML, leave that up to the developer or designer
instead learn SEO. This way you can create a balance
between writing for search engines and people.
Copywriting for web sites and SEO are and should be
one and the same thing. I was recently interviewed by
a student at the local community college enrolled in
their Technical Writing program because she wants to
write for web sites. During the interview I asked
her what they were teaching about search engines, she
said that someone had brought them up in class but
the professor said that they won't cover that
and he also said that search engines don't
matter. Is everyone missing the boat on this one?
The copy on your site is to serve two purposes,
attract the bots of search engines and sell your
product or services to your site's visitors.
Should this task not be performed by the same person?
It seems to me that people really miss the whole
picture of a site if they are only working towards
one or the other. People, you can have both - create
a balance in your copy.
Within the next few months I plan to hire a
writer/SEO person in my company. This person will
handle all SEO and copywriting for my company. I
plan to hire a someone who is primarily a writer and
teach SEO to him/her. In the past, when I need a
writer, I hire a writer and then once she has a rough
put together. She and I site down and go through it
together. I try to change for SEO and she tells me
what she will let me change and what I can't.
Together we create a balanced product and a much
better one in my opinion. There is give and take on
both ends. Yes, I don't get it optimized as
much as I would like, but she doesn't get the
perfectly flowing copy she wants either. I could
probably get it to rank a little higher but then how
would the sales be for this site.
Thanks,
Andy Gartner
Andy Gartner
Onalaska Web
Affordable Web Design and Hosting
http://www.onalaskaweb.com
Comment?
mailto:copywriting@marketingwonk.com?subject=Copywriting_and_SEO
............................................................
TOPIC: Copywriting and SEO
FROM: Jill Whalen - jill,highrankings.com
Hi Nick and all...
I usually agree with Mike Banks Valentine, and in
fact he has written a few guest articles for my
newsletter. However, I have to strongly disagree
with some of the points he made in the last issue of
I-Copywriting.
Mike said:
>> SEO's take existing web copy and
massage it to make the text and page structure
crawler friendly so that those search engine spiders
will recognize what a given page is about. The goal
is to gain top rankings in the search engines for
competitive keyword phrases targeted by our clients.
Those clients could often benefit from a seasoned
professional writer RE-writing their web pages as
well, but only if they were willing to FOREGO high
search engine rankings. <<
Sorry, Mike, but you've got to be kidding?
There's an entire new field created just for
this purpose called SEO Copywriting (which I like to
flatter myself into thinking I had a little hand in
creating!). The whole idea is to write for the
search engines AND the site visitors. There's
absolutely no reason to forego high rankings in
exchange for professional copywriting. The thought of
that is simply ludicrous to me.
Yes, it's true that the typical SEOs job is to
edit existing copy so that it utilizes the keyword
phrases. In fact, that's my specialty, and
it's what my Nitty-gritty report is based on.
BUT...and this is a huge but...it's not always
possible to edit existing copy in a way that will
make sense for the search engines and the site's
users.
In those cases, it's imperative that the SEO put
away their ego to step down and let the professional
copywriters take over. I firmly believe that any
good professional copywriter worth their salt can
easily be trained in SEO copywriting. In fact, it
takes them generally about 2 or 3 pages to understand
what they need to do, if they have the benefit of a
decent SEO teaching them.
SEOs should stay away from trying to write copy, just
as copywriters should stay away from thinking they
are SEOs just because they know how to write for the
search engines. Both need to work together, not
separately.
IMO, any SEO who does not have a professional
copywriter on staff or contracted out, is doing a
huge disservice to their clients because there's
no sense in getting high rankings if your site's
copy sounds like it was written by an SEO. It will
be a million times harder to make a sale in under
those circumstances. Let's face it, the best
SEOs are somewhat technically inclined, and the best
copywriters are generally creatively inclined.
Together, they make a killer optimization team.
For all you professional copywriters on this list,
the world of SEO copywriting is wide open right now.
There are only a few really good people in the field,
although it's growing by leaps and bounds. SEO
is hot; very hot. If you're having trouble
finding good writing jobs, I would strongly suggest
that you learn the art of SEO copywriting and then
find some SEOs to partner with. You will benefit,
the SEO will benefit and most of all, the clients
looking for high rankings, sales and a site that
totally rocks, will benefit from it!
Best,
Jill Whalen
TOPIC: Copywriting and SEO
FROM: Karon Thackston - karon,copywritingcourse.com
Dear Nick,
In response to Mike Banks Valentine's comments
regarding SEO copywriting. Mike said:
>> I guarantee that you, as a professional
writer, would not want to see a keyword phrase
repeated six or seven times on a page of 600 words.
I'll wager that you would even recommend
reducing that page to 250 words or less to gain
clarity and focus, that you'd vary your words to
avoid repetition, that you'd re-write headlines
to emphasize the sizzle rather than the steak, that
you would opt for simple metaphor rather than
industry buzzword.
BUT every one of those moves would destroy search
engine position for that client. He now has a
beautifully written page that nobody will ever find
by doing a search at Google. Congratulations on your
stellar written work - which is now invisible to the
search engines! <<
Mike is wrong. This is exactly what I do. As a
professional SEO copywriter, I DO want to see the
keyword phrases repeated. I do want longer copy on
the page to increase saturation. I don't
recommend reducing the copy to 250 words.
A professional SEO copywriter is trained to create
copy that is the happy solution that Mike says he
can't find. We have a talent to be able to
create the sizzle without burning the steak. Our
profession dictates that we create copy that
impresses both the visitor and the search engines.
So Mike, while I understand your comments *if*
written to copywriters, I just wanted you to take
heart! There are SEO copywriters who provide the
very things you believe are missing.
Karon Thackston
www.marketingwords.com
posted by Jen @ 11:31 AM
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